THE YA HO WA 13 INTERVIEW
Sunflower, Octavius, Father Yod & Djin from back in the early 70's at the Source Family Band Room in Los Angeles
photo courtesy of Source Archives-Isis
PSF: Was there a lot of promiscuity (it was the heart of the sexual revolution after all)? Were you nudists?
by Gary Bearman (Part 2 of 3)
SUNFLOWER: Nudists - yes, promiscuity - not tolerated.
DJIN: There was some promiscuity at first, but with the teachings it couldn't last. We were nudists to some degree, but more modest. We believed the human form was a great magnificent gift from the creator and the temple of the holy spirit, and not to be defiled or lusted after.
PSF: Is it true Father had 13 wives?
DJIN: Actually, he had 12 wives and 1 "mother angel" he regarded as his true complementary opposite. They all chose to be with him of their own free will. The women in the family were free to seek their own highest affinity without negativity. This promoted our learning to drop jealousy, envy, competition, etc.
SUNFLOWER: The thing about consciousness is that women are attracted to the ones who have the truths and manifest them. Those that don't usually are not as desirable to some women, especially in the Family. He was the center of all of the wonder that was manifested, and certain women could not be with anyone else. If two women came to you out of the blue and both refused to go anywhere else, how can you tell one of them, "I love you," and the other to "leave"? This would mean that your love is based on the ability to pick and choose and not given freely in its purest form. The women were given other "tests" to see just how clear they were with this, but these 13 women were just with Father and no one else. They were the Council by whom certain problems were discussed and solved with the wisdom only a woman can provide.
OCTAVIUS: Now the question that is, was, and always has been a big curiosity for all red blooded, breathing creatures of both sexes. "Is it true he had 13 wives?" "And, what was going on there with all that, and all those people and scantily dressed women and babies???" Please, please tell me before my own tweaked mind takes over again.
In the heart of Hollywood on Sunset Blvd. in downtown humanity, people were shocked from their slumber and raised to curiosity. All humanity is subconsciously blueprinted to participate in the cosmic Law of Gender and the merging of opposites. It is like noticing from the mountain top which way the river flows. Sorry, you see what it has done to me. I start teaching at the drop of a question.
About the women, how can I explain? Oh yeah, "The Law of Correspondence." The family was structured in the same way nature is structured. The Fractal is one. "As above, so below, as below, so above." The planets revolve around the Sun. The bigger the Sun, the larger the system. In Nature, gender plays out the same dance. In the atomic world, the electrons and protons are interrelated through the electromagnetic charge of Gender. Men and women are attracted and repulsed from each other just like everything else. So a big bright positive Sun, source of light, is a strong attraction for women as well as men in a different dynamic.
He used to say with a "Cheshire Cat" grin, "all the women are mine, son." Then he would laugh a deep Santa laugh and say, "they are with you because they want to be, and because you are treating them properly, but if you make them unhappy they will just come back to me because I am the sun. I am constant, positive and they are secure that I will not mistreat them. So in this way I am letting you experience women in her purest nature. So if you are a Godman, then you will be uninvolved with what the feminine nature does, for everything she does, she does subconsciously being my daughter, to help bring you to your full maturity as a son of god." (A jagged pill for an earthman to stomach.) Like nature, some revolving planets did not want to be anywhere but next to him. There were eventually 12 women which for some reason or another were constant. They were referred to as "The Mothers," and one women was referred to as "his mother," the 13th woman. He was very powerful . He actually could and apparently wanted to be balanced by that much feminine energy (not my cup of tea). He handled it like nothing you have ever seen. Being with the opposite gender is mostly about communication, not sex. Union is the given.
PSF: What part did sex, and more specifically, tantric sex play in the family? What was the philosophy or teachings regarding sex in the group?
DJIN: We believed sex was sacred and a power not to be toyed with, but absolutely important to be mastered and understood for what it could do when properly used to regenerate people. The women were free to choose their affinity and change without negativity. The men were to stay focused on spirit and not pursue women.
PSF: When you say they weren't to pursue women, was it OK for them to be sexual if they were pursued, or were they abstinent for a period of time there?
DJIN: No abstinence. They were to show non-differentiation to the women and accept whoever came to them.
SUNFLOWER: Sex is the highest form of energy used to direct man to consciousness. There are many traps within the direction of this energy all the way from lower forms of lust and desire, to the attainment of enlightenment. This is a very secret and not attainable state for most beings, and requires a tremendous amount of control over the senses to be understood. Most will never achieve what is possible.
PSF: Why did Father Yod have 13 wives? Was the purpose of this to demonstrate the futility of jealousy?
DJIN: It was only tangently a challenge to Western society's monogamous marriage institution, and it did demonstrate that it could work, but mainly it was a cosmic formula for anchoring a certain positive consciousness into the kingdom of flesh; i.e. the 12 around the one thing. He personally worked on and prepared these 13 to become the council mothers to the rest of the family so we could be self governing without one as a head.
ISIS: The most revolutionary concept he introduced into the family was liberating all women. He raised women up as "God's first creation," and allowed each woman to do as she pleased, choosing her work, choosing her mate, freely expressing her soul as the creative force of the universe. This freedom resulted in many women choosing him. And his great love and concern for women influenced him to want to give them what they wanted and needed.
The result was that quite early in the growth of the family, Jim began to bring other women into his relationship. There was a point when he asked Robin for a divorce, but asked her to stay in the family. Robin never left, but she did not send in the divorce papers. When Father became Father Yod and into Yahowha, Makushla replaced Robin in Father's heart and became his other half, his mother/angel. She was the one who was with him constantly. Father continued to accept other women, and Makushla had to handle the same anguish of sharing him that Robin had. Most of the young women who were attracted to the family were irresistibly attracted to Father and wanted to be "his woman." Almost all he attempted to turn back to serve his sons. He would say, "If you love me, serve my sons." Usually to no avail.
It was the freedom of the women to choose the godman they wanted to be with in a closed group with a relatively fixed number of choices (although new sons and daughters did constantly flow in, as some flowed out), that resulted in some sons and Father being surrounded by clusters of women, and other sons being left as singletons. It was the women themselves who created the unions within the family, and it was their free choice that formed polygamous groupings. Father taught that a godman should be passive in such matters, not signaling preference or pursuing any particular woman. He taught that his sons should be one-pointed into God, and that any woman who came should be graciously accepted as a gift from God, without judgment. So the sons were like rocks in the lake, and the women swam around from rock to rock as they chose. Father also taught that a woman would always desert her current mate for a higher affinity. Thus a man could not hold onto a woman, and must allow her to come and go as the fluctuating pulse of the creative force of God. Thus Father allowed the women to create the family in its many metamorphoses. There was never a dull moment!
PSF: Did the current events of the times influence the direction of your group in any way? I'm speaking of things like the sexual revolution, civil rights, women's rights, the Summer of Love, Woodstock, Vietnam, Watergate, etc.?
DJIN: Yes, of course. In my opinion, Father's Source was the ultimate protest and drop out from contributing to all the negativity while living in the love the hippies were trying to hold on to.
PSF: Were you/are you pacifists?
DJIN: We would defend our women and children if threatened, but not go out of our way to fight someone.
PSF: All of the musicians in the group played before you joined the Source?
SUNFLOWER: All of the musicians were previously adept.
PSF: How did it come about that such a unique spiritual group decided to create music?
DJIN: Father knew the power of music to influence the young and old, and that he had a number of accomplished musicians in the family. We didn't get into spontaneous music 'til father started playing with us and singing wisdom teachings, a new genre created. Father had us press only 9 of over 65 albums we recorded. Most of the rest were destroyed in carelessness, some of my favorites too.
PSF: Wow! Most all of the albums you released were within a 2 year period. Were all 65 albums recorded with in that period primarily?
SUNFLOWER: I had been a very successful musician in the Hollywood scene, and when I came to the family there was no music, then naturally when the other brothers came in one by one there was a tremendous talent and it evolved. We had a bid grand piano at the big house in Griffith park, and that's where we started to record on a Teac 4 track.
OCTAVIUS: We created music because we had pent up musicians and egos to deal with that needed the refiners fire, so the master blacksmith came and joined us in the ring of fire. His fire roared as he beat the edges of our swords. The music started when Father Yod found musicians among us. Everything that happened in the music was first about teaching the people involved to get over themselves. After all, musicians are among the biggest egos. There we were, musicians more or less accomplished to different degrees, but all of us could play. After we had gone through many different configurations of the people who wanted to be playing music and what worked and what kind of music we would play, what the point was and all the dynamics of will and ego, he stepped in. He then told us he was going to play too. No one was aware that he played or sang, really. Well that was when the fire went up. We no longer would be playing anything rehearsed. Only spontaneous sound that would penetrate all minds and be a vehicle for the wisdom. The mind says all the things it will say about the music per se, but the wisdom that is carried by sound will be planted no matter what. The mind cannot stop the truth in this format. That is why we love it, because it arrests the thinking mind and sets it on fire. The more you listen without thought, the more beneficial and cleansing it can be. Try listening with no thought the whole time, if you can. All the time the music itself was the soundtrack to planting seeds of wisdom in a disguised manner without the interference of Left Brain. Sometimes we would play and people would stop in their tracks, stunned, as if a bright light was suddenly shined on them in the dark. To this day I laugh with the power of it when done in consciousness.
By the way, this all occurred between 3AM to 6AM every, yes, every day. We the band, and different configurations with Yahowha, would go into the studio (soundproofed garage) and record the moment he walked through the door. Then later for the albums we just put the music. His voice was pure fire to me. His kettledrum beat had a life of its own. In the beginning, I was in musician's ego HELL. He knew it too. It wasn't long before I could observe myself going through a total mental trip while I was playing. So the music was cleansing me at the same time we played it. Incredible!!! All of us got soooo burned. All that was left was the Good Stuff. The reason on one level for the albums was that it was just the next thing to do. It was ahead of its time. We planted seeds. The "Spirit of 76" was 13 people who wanted, needed, had to be part of the music. We even played at the "WHISKEY" on Sunset Blvd. one night. There we were, coming from our own little heaven to play a gig in downtown Hell. Wow! Get the picture? Oh these memories. "The densest form of spirit is in the material, little kiddies."
DJIN: We were in a garage/manger converted into a studio. We recorded on an 4 track Teac 1/2" with Sennheiser mikes. All recordings with Father took as long to record as it takes to listen to. He wanted the raw honesty of the eternal now.
PSF: How many albums were pressed?
DJIN: As I recall, I remember either YHW13 or Principles was a 5,000 copy run, and all the others were 500 or 1,000.
PSF: Was the entire community present when you played and Father Yod sang?
SUNFLOWER: No. Generally, people would disperse to go to work at the Restaurant, and we had to work hard and didn't have all of our equipment to go into the studio to play. We would generally finish at around 10AM and go to do our other duties. I made the Family Jewelry - over 5000 pieces for all to wear.
DJIN: Octavius rigged up speakers in the gathering room for the family, and they listened there if duty didn't call.
PSF: What did the sons and daughters of Yahowha think at first with the teachings being spoken and sung to them with psychedelic music playing in the background? It must have been quite a trip?!
DJIN: There were mixed responses, to the extremes.
SUNFLOWER: Everyone loved the music. We would always end our morning meditation with listening to the tapes from the day before, and then go into the studio to play some more.
PSF: Did you believe that the energy that Father Yod and Ya Ho Wa 13 contained could be transferred to people through listening to the music?
DJIN: Good question. Yes, absolutely the best medium.
SUNFLOWER: It was designed to be a vehicle that would attract those who could relate. It was always felt that music was the biggest influence of the free loving spirits of the times, and that was the way to reach the most souls.
PSF: Why did you release albums? Was part of the purpose of releasing music an attempt to gather more followers, or at least to transfer the energy to people who would hear this? Was the intention to enlighten people or raise the vibration of the planet in any way?
DJIN: All of the above, right on.
SUNFLOWER: The intent was always to be seen and heard in a way that would offer our teachings and our leadership to all in a big way, but Father never sought followers. Ours was not a cult, and so followers were the one thing we did not encourage.
PSF: No offense, but Father Yod didn't exactly have the most melodic of voices, although it does certainly have its own charms. What made him decide he wanted to sing?
DJIN: He wanted to archive the wisdom teachings on record and have fun doing it.
SUNFLOWER: He was the voice that had the talent to be spontaneous. He always tried to have someone else step up to the plate, but as they say, "that was a tough act to follow," and in his presence it was obvious that no one could. Besides that, he loved to have the music. That was his time to have fun, so to speak.
OCTAVIUS: I think it is fair to say that everyone would agree that he wanted to play, and have people to play with and teach people how to play.
PSF: Why the name "Spirit of 76" - what was the significance of that?
SUNFLOWER: The 200 year anniversary of the USA.
DJIN: We had 8 VW buses with the spare tire covers painted with the obverse and reverse of the great seal of the U.S. We also had the seal as our restaurant sign on Sunset. Father taught us that the founding fathers of our country were divinely inspired to create this land of freedom for all, and that the movement of the Hebrews from slavery to individual rights here was our destined purpose -76 as in 1776.
PSF: In listening to many of the earlier albums, it seems like Father had a great sense of humor and a high level of irreverence, though certainly a great deal of sincerity. Please say more about this and his personality in disseminating his teachings.
DJIN: Well, he did make sure we had a lot of laughs, and considering the weight of what we were doing in the midst of a society and ourselves in upheaval, the laughter was like medicine. He made spirit fun and pleasurable, unlike the heaviness of the worlds' religions which he did have a certain irreverence for because of how they, more than not, mislead people about god, heaven, hell, life/death, purpose and plan, etc.
SUNFLOWER: He was free of personality. My son was the first born in the family, and when he was born, he was born dead. Father raised him up and said, "God, if you let this child live, I will never speak anything but the word of God again." He blew his breath into my son and he came alive. Thus he never spoke anything but the word of God again. This is the picture of Father holding the baby on one of the albums. He never taught with personality.
PSF: Were the albums released in the order they were recorded?
PSF: Kohoutek - is this totally improvised, even the women singing on it in the background?
DJIN: Totally improvised - no editing or overdubbing, even the women singing.
PSF: Who is the woman singing on this?
DJIN: Which, there are several? The high voice was Aquariana who stands out, the rich lower voice is Ahom. There was also Cinderella.
PSF: What was the influence of the coming of the comet Kohoutek on the group?
DJIN: Kohoutek was the cosmic emissary that transformed Father Yod into Yahowha. He recognized it as kind of an anointing presence of God consciousness.
PSF: On Kohoutek, Father Yod says, "At any given time only a few can hear." Please speak more about this.
DJIN: He was putting the musical message out to reach the few that rise up at the end of an age and start a new age having mastered the lessons that dominate the previous age to bring forth soul qualities that can inspire a new age, like passing grades. These are the courageous ones who individualize to attain levels of consciousness and sensitivity that the "masses" who blindly follow the trends cannot. The prophecy of the 144,000 exemplars of a "new day on earth" are such as these. However, prophecies don't always come true in the way we may expect them to, so not to be taken literally, necessarily.
SUNFLOWER: Even with such a magnificent example and being in his presence, many had no idea what he was about. Very few could get past their own personality and ego to be able to truly understand what he was about. The lifestyle and the teachings were not something for the weak
PSF: Contraction and Expansion - these are beautiful albums with truly wonderful musicianship. Are the two related?
DJIN: Yeah, as I recall we did them two days in a row back to back. The musicianship was tops, and all of our instruments and band room were new then so we were stoked. I think a lot of the excitement then was because spontaneous recording with singing was a leap of faith to us, and created the tension that is indicative of yhw's music. By the way, I used a dogs bone on my guitar to get that high pitch slide sound on Expansion/Contraction.
SUNFLOWER: They were recorded in two days - Expansion first, and then Contraction.
PSF: On Contraction he talks about the Akashic records, and says the teachings are all in there.
DJIN: Yes, it's a term for the memory banks of the universal mind. Science even now admits that somewhere in the universe the sounds of the dinosaurs are still reverberating and theoretically could be heard with the right technology.
PSF: He also says on Contraction that you are Jesus, and that the story is to show you the path. What did he mean by that? Was he a follower of Jesus?
SUNFLOWER: The story of Jesus was an ancient way of concealing the many truths. If you follow a certain path as is concealed in the story, you too can be the Jesus consciousness. Example: Jesus carried his own cross (burdens) to the top of the Hill at Golgotha (crown in the pineal). When he entered the cave and the stone was rolled back in three and a half days, he was risen to the flesh again. This is the story of reincarnation, where the soul returns to be born again in three 1/2 days. In the early times of Catholicism, people were being crucified for everything against the Church. The truths had to be concealed in a story that would last. The Bible has been rewritten so many times that it is difficult to find the original purpose. The truths are all in the Akashic records that are possible for their initiate to access and read.
DJIN: He followed only the voice of god, yhwh (Yahweh), within, and taught us how to recognize and do that too. The story of Jesus in the bible, there are many other stories of him too, is a Qabalistic mystery school teaching to inspire and guide the disciple, one who takes knowledge. Jesus, meaning Jah, saves or liberates, is a story of an Aquarian age person, a future being, who was destined to inspire large numbers of people to self develop over lifetimes on earth, and then, having graduated, to express their attainment at the end of the Piscean age, today. This was the purpose of our family, to liberate the Jesus Mary, son/daughter of yhwh in the now.
PSF: All or Nothing at All - who is on the front cover?
OCTAVIUS: From Left to Right is: Aquariana, Zoraster, Electric, Djin, Ahom, cannot remember his name, Octavius, Omega, and Sunflower.
PSF: Who is the woman in the center?
DJIN: Ahom, who was Jim Baker's legal wife before the family - a great voice. She was in Hair for a while, I believe, at the old Aquarius theatre near Sunset and Vine.
PSF: What is the significance of the title?
DJIN: Many things. For instance, to be in our family one had to give up all they thought they possessed and were, or they received nothing at all because they couldn't join.
PSF: Who sung on this album? It's one album without Father and without the full jamming of other albums, almost like a folk album, but mostly singing about Father Yod and freedom. These are obviously rehearsed songs as opposed to some of the others?
DJIN: It was kind of a devotional album that introduced his children, their compositions, and their mutual love for him and their new life of light and wisdom to the universe.
OCTAVIUS: Let me reiterate - musicians have very big egos. On a mundane earth level, this album was for all the big egos that needed to be part of the music. The individuals that had spiritual songs, etc., and they wanted to be on the album. Father had to do something with them. The album cover name I think states in a way that is kind, the purpose of this album, and at that time there was no way we were ready for the spontaneous energy.
PSF: Everyone on the cover is dressed similarly. Why did everyone wear these loose fitting robes?
OCTAVIUS: The robes were what we wore every day except when we wore nothing. Again a number of reasons. We were modern day Essenes and robes are healthy simple garments that free the mind from vanity and declare holiness of the one wearing it.
SUNFLOWER: The clothes were communal, and each day your angel would provide a robe to wear from the freshly cleaned homemade supply. This was the greatest way to dress, totally free from the burdens on your balls imposed by today's underwear and Levis. And it sure made a statement when you saw 250 people in one place on the Sunset Strip.
PSF: Yahowa 13 - this album seems to be a transition and sounds also like it consisted of rehearsed songs? The lyrics don't seem particularly spiritual or seem to fit with some of the content of the Spirit of 76 albums. Please say more about this.
DJIN: The YHW13 album was father's personal, sometimes hidden, sometimes confessional, message to women of the world. It was spontaneous, believe it or not, but it was the solid and basic 3 musicians who are on almost everything plus Father, so this album like Penetration had less complications than the others. I personally liked the four of us combination best because it afforded greater flexibility and freedom of expression, but was considerably more pressing to keep interesting.
PSF: Why the change to the name Ya Ho Wa 13?
DJIN: Ya ho Wa 13 is the name of the band because of the 13 original states and the number of change and unity and love in the Qabalah.
OCTAVIUS: Technically, when father shed his animal skin he was known and referred to as Yahowha, not Father Yod. The band Ya Ho Wa 13 - the name is the higher octave of Yod He Vau He - the 13 is the esoteric "Christos," the light, the master (of ceremonies - ha ha), the 1 + the 3 of us.
PSF: Savage Sons of Yahowa - perhaps my favorite album, but I have several I love. This album didn't include Father at all and is also an album of rehearsed songs? There aren't any references to Father Yod and the lyrics are ALMOST (but a little too edgy to be entirely) mainstream rock.
OCTAVIUS: Savage Sons was the result of fulfilling what the core musicians wanted to play. We wanted to play some good rehearsed music. The cuts are the best of material written by the musicians themselves. All of the progression was for us. Led by father, he slowly let us complete our own desires, all the while turning the temperature of the spiritual tension up, preparing us "to go where no sane man has gone before."
PSF: Who was Electron on the Savage Sons album?
DJIN: A brother who came from South L.A.
SUNFLOWER: Electron is the big scary looking black brother. He wrote that song "Fire in the Sky." It was always a pleasure to watch him perform. Intimidating to say the least. This album was some of the rehearsed stuff, although we never really spent much time rehearsing - pretty spontaneous also.
OCTAVIUS: Yes, that is the one and only "ELECTRON." You should have seen him when he played. People were not sure if he was only going to play the music, or if he was going to jump off the stage and attack them. It was fabulous!!!
PSF: Was this the only album he appeared on?
PSF: Is he the one with the deep voice on songs like "Fire in the Sky?"
OCTAVIUS: Yes, the only song of his that was on the album. He had some others, but they were very deep and dark.
DJIN: I dug playing on his songs.
PSF: Penetration: An Aquarian Symphony - a brilliant album, and considered a classic with some amazing psychedelic jamming with Father teaching, whistling and singing over the top. In the box set, there's a press release that says among other things that "there's a saying among those who have listened to Penetration three times - that the listener finds it impossible to listen to any other sound after that." Do you literally believe that to be true?
DJIN: Yes. It means if you listen 3 times and put the normal rehearsed and structured sounds on immediately afterward, your soul's audio receptors will tend to reject the structured constricted sound of contrived music, that is if you really listen not just as ambient music, but with devoted attention.
SUNFLOWER: Great promotion, but we all listen to other things too. I have a band that I am in now that is for real a cross between Cream and Jimi Hendrix that sounds a lot like some Van Halen thrown in. I love it. I am going to produce and distribute this also soon.
OCTAVIUS: Father said that our music could not be played as background music. Turn it up, or turn it off. After experiencing "The Source," nothing is the same.
PSF: I'm Gonna Take You Home - another classic album where there are some nice spoken parts by Father Yod that are easy to hear without the music playing (not to mention some killer psychedelic jamming). Please tell me more about the rather provocative cover and gatefold picture?
DJIN: I could write a book on the cover. It is an absolute masterpiece of design, and probably the greatest cover in music history. Suffice it to say if you were to fully grok the meaning and symbology of it, you would have the keys to magically transform your person and environment into your hearts desire and ride the chariot of god into the future of your own will, one with god.
PSF: To the Principles for the Children - what is meant by the title of this album?
OCTAVIUS: A play on words. The great principles of truth for the children who have ears.
DJIN: It has double meaning. The principles are they who are the care givers of the children. The more esoteric hidden meaning is a play on words, "to/two and for/four," as there are two basic principles in the universe, darkness and light, nothing and something, being and non-being etc., and their children or offspring the four symbols of which yhwh represents; fire, water, air and earth (matter).
PSF: Golden Sunrise is the one with Sky Sunlight Saxon. These songs were rehearsed? How did he become involved with Father and the family?
DJIN: I can't say exactly how Sunlight, then Sky Saxon, first met Father. I do know the Seeds had just broken up and Sky was drifting a bit when he met Father, and saw God in him. Sunlight was in and out of the family body because of his personal music career which was understandable to Father, and he never played with Father because Father sang solo to get the wisdom teachings across. Sunlight was directed by father, around 73, to do an album with the other musicians of YHW13 called Fire, Water, Air (before Earth, Wind and Fire who actually frequently ate at our restaurant and may have gotten the idea for their name from us). We called that band Ya Ho Wha Ho as I recall.
PSF: One of the songs talks somewhat about reincarnation. Did Father Yod teach reincarnation?
DJIN: Yes, and conscious incarnation, there's a difference. The first is of necessity, and the second is of conscious self-mastery.
SUNFLOWER: Reincarnation, yes! Reincarnation is generally the baseline of thinking processes with any teachings of enlightenment.
PSF: Who was involved with Yodship?
DJIN: I think that's just Sunlight, Osiris and Sirius.
PSF: When was it recorded?
DJIN: Around '73-'74, Hollywood.
PSF: Unreleased Material - These are different versions of some of the songs with some additional material. I'm assuming these were recorded in the same sessions as the Golden Sunrise album, and that these songs were also rehearsed as opposed to some of the spontaneous albums. On the last part, Sky Saxon gives a message - does he speak for the band on this, or is this his personal point of view on things?
DJIN: Personal view, but truth.
OCTAVIUS: All his own trip. No offense, just the truth.
See Part 3 (of 3) of the Ya Ho Wa 13 interview
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