STEVE WEBER
Photo of Weber from August 2005, courtesy of Dr. Roger Straus
Remembered by friends, family, Rounders doc director
interviews by Jason Gross
(August 2020)
Kathryn Frederick (Red Newt Records, Fredericks Productions, painter)
PSF: What was your first impression of Weber?
KF: He's such a character. He's an enigma. I first met him at my home in Silver City Nevada around 1985. He came down with the Rounders to visit Jeffrey, who I was married to at the time. One of the first things that Steve... actually he was well known for... every time you walk around, he nails you with a kiss. It made me very uncomfortable and I said to Jeffrey that this was happening, because Jeff was very jealous. So I mentioned it to him and he said "Oh! Don't you hate that? He does it to me too!" Those were his soul kisses. So at first, I spent a lot of time trying to avoid him. (laughs) And then I got to know him and I thought the world of him.
He was a tall, good looking character. He took over the room when he walked in.
They had hung around for that trip for about a week and they had been down at the Hog Farmers first. And a whole entourage came up with them. It wasn't just Steve and the Rounders, there was a quite a group and it was a lot of fun. They played at the local bar almost nightly while they were there.
Then the next time we came up to Portland for a Clamtones/Rounder reunion and I saw him of course that trip quite a bit.
We saw him socially several times- at his house with Essy. They were married and living in Portland. We went over there a few times and visited. It was always a kick. Hard to describe. It was just fun. Just hanging out. Everybody would play music and always a good time.
PSF: Did anything change over time when you knew him?
KF: No, he was always Weber. He was the same. He just said whatever was on his mind. He got the impression for a while that I didn't like him and we had quite a discussion about that. He thought that I had thought that he was a bad influence on Jeffrey but nobody influenced Jeffrey. He did what he damn well pleased. (laughs) So I finally convinced him that wasn't true but he had to be liked. It was very important to him to be liked.
And I'm just realizing that since his death, he really was an enigma. I have talked to so many people in the last few days, trying to find out more information because we can't find a next of kin. He has a son but nobody knows his last name. He told me one time that he had a sister and everyone was shocked when I mentioned it, even band members who had played with him for 40 years did not know he had a sister. And then I heard from someone last night that someone thinks he has a brother. And NOBODY else has heard that one. That was really a shock.
What we're trying to do is... not to be indelicate... he is still on ice. They can't find a next of kin to approve a burial. A cremation actually. So everyone's panicking, trying to find out Essie, his former wife, who is still living. She's living in a nursing home and we're trying to find out if they will take the word of a divorced wife. (laughs)
So yeah, he was an enigma for all of us who thought we were so close to him. Now we're realizing that we really didn't know that much about his background.
PSF: You never thought that he might have a lot of his life hidden away?
KF: It never dawned on me. You think you know somebody... I mean, I knew who his mother was. I knew he was from Bucks County (Pennsylvania). His mother was an artist and his father was a metal sculptor. I don't know how long his father was around or if he passed away... I mean, I'm sure has by now. But was he a figure in the family life? I don't know.
It's been a little mind boggling to realize how little I really did know.
PSF: What did he contribute to the Rounders?
KF: Oh, he was an amazing picker. He was with Antonia before Peter was. Weber and Antonia were writing songs and when Antonia met Peter, she was blown away too and the three of them were pretty amazing.
Antonia needs more credit actually for a lot of the songs. She was really the leader behind it all. She died 3 or 4 years ago but she was an amazing writer.
I think his guitar picking was probably the best I've ever heard.
PSF: What was Weber's relationship with Peter like?
KF: They were brothers basically. Not really but they had a really tight, wonderful relationship until the last 15 years and then, they started having troubles. Weber moved out here to Portland with the band so it wasn't like they were seeing each other as often but when they did... There was a lot of bickering, let's put it that way. (laughs) A lot of bickering on stage. It wasn't a secret that they weren't getting along. But they always loved each other. I don't care what anyone says- they did.
PSF: What about the lighter side of Weber?
KF: Well, he loved cats and he was great with kids! (laughs)
PSF: Did you think the Rounders documentary represented him as you knew him?
KF: I think it did- some band members liked it, some didn't but I think it did. Steve denied he said some things in there like how he did the hoop snake (see Stampfel's tribute for more on that).
JULY 18th update from Karthryn:
"They finally cremated Steve's body. His son did turn up- he had been at sea but contacted me when he returned. Steve had been cremated before Aeko was in touch though. I believe the funeral director (thinking of a Lyle Lovett song now) finally took the word of a friend of Steve's who had been contacted in the first place. The entire situation was very confusing. I did tell Aeko he could claim the remains, but I have no idea if he did."
Frederick also put out the only Weber solo album- The Holy Modal Rounders B.C. on Frederick Productions, recorded 1976 at a live performance at Rohan's Rockpile, a club near Vancouver B.C. (the CD was released 2006).
You can hear the album below:
Ed Ward (writer, author)
Weber in early Rounders publicity photo, mid 60's
PSF: From your standpoint, what do you think Steve contributed to the Rounders?
EW: He was the guitar player and he had an unique style. Somehow Stampfel figured out how to duet with him but Weber was never really much of an ensemble guy. He had to be out there doing what he did. Other people around him didn't really matter.
PSF: This is your impression from...
EW: The film is really revelatory and just talking to Peter over the years. But he (Weber) did this amazing vanishing act so that nobody knew where he was and whether he was still married to this woman or what. Nobody knew.
He was not a social guy and he was pretty abrasive to the public. He would just be in your face all the time, very confrontational.
PSF: Do you mean he did this personally or with crowds?
EW: Both. It was just like 'I'm the only guy here!'
PSF: How did you see his relationship with Stampfel?
EW: Well, they were kind of joined at the hip, although on another level, they couldn't stand each other. It was weird but only those two guys could have played that music and that wasn't gonna happen all the time.
PSF: What did you think they were disagreeing about?
EW: I don't know. They were really close and the idea to Weber that there was a universe outside of that dyad was pretty hard for him to take. He knew what was going on but he wasn't all that happy about it.
PSF: In terms of what?
EW: That there was an audience and the expectations that the audience had.
PSF: He just wanted to do his own thing and not worry about anyone else?
EW: Right, exactly.
PSF: From what you knew about the Rounders before you saw the film, did you think the documentary represented him and the band accurately?
EW: Oh yeah. I was really happy about the film.
PSF: From what you've seen and heard, he's known as a self-destructive, hard to hand guy but did you hear about a lighter side of him?
EW: I really don't know. His world seemed to revolve around amphetamines and music, and only one of those was of any interest to me.
PSF: He never seemed to have put out any live music except that something Kathryn put out from the mid-'70's. Does that sound right?
EW: Yeah, he didn't do much either as an ensemble performer or as a solo performer. He was obviously not driven to be a performer as some people are.
PSF: Kathryn's impression is that if he had been given the opportunity, he would have jumped at it but he had the reputation of being difficult so maybe that's why nothing came to him as far as offers.
EW: If he had the opportunity, he would have jumped at it and fucked it up!
Michael Simmons (writer, musician)
Rounders in the early 70's, with Weber 2nd from the right
PSF: Did you ever meet Weber?
MS: I only met Weber once and hung out with him. I didn't know him that well back then.
The very first Rounders gig I went to was at a YMCA on 14th Street and it was the 'Good Taste Is Timeless' Rounders (circa 1971), so Weber was there. They were the freakiest band to this day that I have ever seen. First of all, all of their clothes were torn and everything. They had the longest hair. Just the sight of these five or six guys... It was unbelievable and they were incredible. Just total high energy. Great picking. Very funny- not always intentionally, they were just so eccentric. I had been a Rounders fan for years. I was like one of the few people who owned the 'Moral Eels' album. (laughs) When 'Easy Rider' came out, I knew "The Bird Song." I started young. I was a precocious New York hippie kid.
He was a great guitarist as anyone who knew him could tell you. You know the legends. You saw the film.
I met him at McCabe's in L.A. when they were doing that last tour. It was around 15-20 years ago. He was really nice! He was very friendly and very personable. He would sticking to beer. Stampfel's whole thing when they were gigging was to keep Steve on beer, because if he got to hard liquor, he got fucked up. But if you got him to stick to beer, Weber was fine- he was sort of even keeled. And that night, he was beer only.
PSF: What did he contribute to the Rounders?
MS: Well, the Rounders was originally a duo and he was one half of it. He was an incredible finger picker guitarist. He has a distinctive voice just as Peter has a distinctive voice, and the blend was fantastic. He also had, like Peter, an incredible memory for a million songs. They both had this vast catalog imprinted in their brains that they could draw on.
The other thing was that they were crucial to the Fugs. I mean, they were in the first version of the Fugs and they're on the first album cover and they play on.
When I met Steve, he looked like he did in Paul's movie. Very tall, long grey hair, beard- quite the quintessential old hippie.
You know what the thing about the Rounders is? And I say this because to this day, I call myself a hippie. I have mixed feelings about the word 'hippie' but I embrace it because I really resent it when the punks came out with that anti-hippie stuff. They turned it into a cilche and made it sound like there was one kind of hippie and there was the granola and giving flowers to cops and all that stuff. And there was a much tougher, streetwise version of 'hippie,' exemplified by the New York hippies and the Diggers in San Francisco. It wasn't all flowers and sweetness. These people were as tough as any punk rocker.
PSF: So you think Weber was like that?
MS: Oh yeah. He was a street guy. Totally.
So I embrace the word and label 'hippie' and I think the Rounders exemplified that kind of hippie- freaky, drug addled and often very smart. And they were very smart guys- not idiots by any means. Peter's brilliant.
PSF: What was Weber's relationship with Peter?
MS: Well, the night that I saw them, it was fine.
Peter would say things and Steve would roll his eyes or shake his head and throw his arms up in exasperation. It was contentious but it was a kind of very friendly, loving contentious. (laughs) And there was something endearing about it. They clearly drove each other crazy and yet they loved each other. I think you can see little bits of this in the movie.
Now obviously something happened with this chick Judith but nobody knows what it is because she... apparently the word is, she shut Steve off from everybody over the last... 15 years? So I know NOTHING about her 'cause nobody knows her in the Rounders crowd.
PSF: What about the lighter side of Weber?
MS: Well, like I was describing the Rounders when I saw them in '71, he was FUNNY. Sometimes intentionally. (laughs) And sometimes he was just so eccentric, it was entertaining and amusing.
I saw the Rounders 100 times but I would always hang out with Peter. I didn't know Steve that well.
Peter really cleaned up and quit speed and quit drinking when he met Betsy and got the job at her father's publishing company. Peter really save his own ass... it was a combination of Betsy and really Peter's own will to transform.
What's amazing about Weber is how long he lived from his habits!
My favorite scene from Bound to Lose is when these kids in Bucks Country (where he was living) come up to him as if he was this hip icon like Mick Jagger. And he's sitting there, smoking a cigarette, sitting on a bench. And they look up to him as this icon, and he was! I used to say that there are only 11 authentically hip people on the planet and the list if fluid. Stampfel and Weber are always on that list. They are authentically hip. Very few people are. I mean, that's why it's called 'hip' and I resent use of that word to mean 'trendy' because it's not what it means.
PSF: Did you think that the movie represented him accurately?
MS: Very much so. It was a good movie. I mean, that whole thing at the end... it was really sad that they didn't pull it off, the reunion... but it was a great way to end the movie! (laughs) It was very dramatic. "Is Weber gonna show?" And then, no. It was kinda cool.
PSF: Any other enlightening stories about him?
MS: You talked to Ed Sanders? He might know more.
PSF: Didn't get the chance to.
MS: Sanders and Allen Ginsberg invented the counterculture and Weber and Stampfel quite frankly were part of that. They were hippies before the term existed, when people were 'beatniks' or whatever.
I just embraced them because they represented what I was and wanted to be as a kid, as a teenager. I was just a stoner and they were the real deal. There was no rock star stuff. These guys were obviously broke. I remember seeing Robin Remaily for the first time (and later I became friendly with him) and his clothes were just torn and hair down to his knees. They were just SO utterly freaky, the way people think of the Mothers of Invention but even more so.
ED NOTE: Also see Simmons' L.A. Weekly article about the Rounders
Paul Lovelace (film maker, Bound to Lose)
PSF: When did you first meet Weber?
PL: The first time I met Steve was the first day I was filming with him. I was a little intimidated to be honest because he's tall and he looks imposing, but he's really sweet. It was at his house- he was living with his mother at the time. I'd seen him before when they'd perform before I met him so I'd gone them when he and Peter started playing again together in the mid-'90's.
PSF: When you filmed, was he helpful or cooperative?
PL: (Laughs) I wouldn't use either of those adjectives. He really just dances to the beat of his own drummer. And that's how he seemed to interact with everyone, not just us filming. He was really nice to us. Never unpleasant. You really just had to roll with it but on a personal level... I never witnessed him be mean or destructive in any sort of way outside of what you might call self-destruction. It was never kind of an outward thing. I never witnessed anything like that.
PSF: What do you mean?
PL: You know, like being a dick or being mean or being nasty to people. That really wasn't how I saw him.
PSF: But you said that there was something inward going on though that you saw?
PL: Well... if you've seen the movie or you've seen him play. Certainly substance abuse, alcohol. Just as far as taking care of himself. That's what I mean.
PSF: What did he contribute to the Rounders?
PL: I think he's a great guitar player and he wrote some great songs but he also... how he would kind of play off Peter and the rest of the band. His musicianship, when he was really on his game, was really something to see. And I only witnessed it personally from the mid-'90's until they broke up. Then there's just the stage presence, which could alternate between completely enthralling and hilarious and compelling to... kind of a train wreck. So you never really knew what you were going to exactly get from night to night. Personally, I kind of found that to be thrilling- I'm not sure the band would agree with me. But as an audience member, I really thought that was one of the things that made the band so much fun and so great.
PSF: What was Weber's relationship with Peter from your perspective?
PL: It was complicated. It was that they had been through so much for so long that they kind of had their own way of dealing with each other. Certain things would kind of roll off Peter and there were certain things that he might get more vocal about. Peter really wanted to rehearse more and Steve didn't really seem that into it. But I definitely witnessed a number of moments between the two of them where you could still tell that they had that connection. They had that spark that drew them together in the first place. They would bicker but I think that's fairly common for bands and musicians who have collaborated for a long time.
But I remember moments where it was the two of them and how they would just be talking and reminiscing and just enjoying each other's company, which... for as much as they did fight or argue with each other, there was also a fair amount of real warmth and bonding too.
PSF: Any stories about the lighter side of Weber?
PL: He could be really fun! In the film, there's an extended scene where they did a tour of the West Coast, primarily Northern California and they had one show in Los Angeles. It was Peter and Steve and Robin and Dave of the long-time Rounders and some other musicians around. They were kind of like kids. They would pile into Dave's car and travel from place to place and it just seemed like they were genuinely having fun. And they would get on Weber from time to time and he would get annoyed with them for... Maybe he was drinking too much during the day or he wasn't ready to perform as they would like. But I would have to say that was the most joyful (time) with the whole band that I had witnessed.
There was just this kind of youthfulness that would come out with him. And he could be very funny and wild. I mean, it's not the easiest thing to handle, but they seemed kind of used to it, how he would just roll through life.
PSF: Were you surprised that he didn't join in for the reunion at the end of film?
PL: Yeah, definitely. I don't know if anyone really saw that coming. He had recently met the girlfriend that he had at that time who he lived with, as far as I know, until he died. And there was some real friction there. And it wasn't just between Peter and Steve. It seemed to be extended towards the rest of the band. Certainly with Peter, she would certainly try to bring out the rivalry with him. "Peter's saying this... Peter's doing this..." And that certainly fueled it but we certainly didn't expect him to not show up for the gig. I think that we had filmed with him several months before that.
But there were things that did happen. There was a scene in the film and it was a whole weekend in Pennsylvania and there was a moment where Peter and Steve started arguing about songwriting, royalties and who wrote what. And it started taking a bit more of that kind of tone.
But I remember being there whenever they realized that he wasn't coming and it was surprising. They were actually scared that something had happened to him, that he had some sort of accident. That was the first reaction.
PSF: After the film came out, I heard from other interviews did that the Weber and his girlfriend were so angry about the film that they would cut them out of their life. Had you heard that?
PL: Sure and that's really disappointing. On the one hand, if the film is responsible for losing touch with friends of his, that's upsetting. I do think that even if the film wasn't in play, I think there was a real sort of toxic environment there. I think something would have happened anyway.
Behind the scenes, we were also trying to reach out to them as much as we could, just to sort of talk to him and for anything they were upset about, to try to alleviate it and see if we all could regroup and the band could play together again. Believe me- we did NOT want the end of the film to be Steve not showing up for this big show. That was horrible. It's a bummer that it ended that way.
But I do think that there is a lot that we don't know, as far as Judith, which is to my understanding might not be her real name. That was his girlfriend at the end. I just think there's a lot that we don't know about the last decade of his life and certainly. what was going on behind the scenes then.
But it bothers me if anyone feels that the film was a reason that he cut off all these people in his life but I also question whether that was just a useful tool to sort of do the inevitable.
PSF: My impression from speaking to others who knew him is that this was just an excuse and she seemed to be a wedge between Steve and other people he knew for a long time.
PL: Yeah, and I feel bad that the band never played together again. And I don't take it personal in the sense that I feel like it's our fault as film makers for making the film that we made 'cause we had a good relationship with Dave and Robin while making the film and they're great. And there's a lot of wonderful people. And Steve was great- we have a lot of great memories of Steve. I heard rumors that he got sober and he quit drinking. If for the last part of his life, he was healthier and happier, I hope that's the case. But there is that sense of unknown as to 'what the hell was really going on and what really happened?' and what his life was like. That makes it a little harder to process and I can imagine that's way more intense in ways for Peter and the rest of the band as well because there's just a lot of question marks and unknowns about 'what happened with Steve Weber?'
PSF: So after the film was finished, did you get a chance to talk to Steve at all?
PL: No, no. We reached out to him but... Well, ironically... Bernard Stollman (of ESP-Disk Records) became Steve's lawyer and threatened to sue us. And so, this was our first film, so we were a little freaked out by it. So we found a lawyer willing to help us and she actually found out that he (Stollman) had been disbarred so he couldn't sue anyone but he was still a defacto representative of Steve. It's a long drawn out saga but basically, through Bernard Stollman we tried to work things out and he was actually OK to deal with. You didn't really trust him but he wasn't unpleasant. And I think eventually, Steve and Judith turned on him as well.
Bernard Stollman would play both sides of it too. On one hand, he would be threatening to sue us and he'd also want to put together some DVD label and release the film. That's what we were dealing with as far as trying to get any sort of real dialog going with him.
PSF: If you able to do an update of the film, what would you want to put in there about Steve?
PL: I feel pretty comfortable with the film. I feel it's a pretty honest representation between Peter and Steve. Yeah, he did disappear for the last 5, 10 minutes of the film so it's kind of driven by Peter 'cause that's who was left there. But we did spend a lot of time filming with him. And I feel like we got a really good glimpse into... that point in their lives anyway- what the personal, creative relationship was like between the two of them.
There's obviously things that I wish that we could have included that we didn't include. We really didn't get into a lot of the albums that the band made over the years. Have Moicy! is one that we didn't cover at all, which seems kind of crazy in hindsight. We just decided to play to the strengths of the material that we had and that was Peter and Steve and their relationship. But there was more about the band obviously, both the New York and Portland incarnations, so I wish we could have more of that.
And then as far as after, I don't know what else... It just ended. He just sort of broke off contact so I don't know how much more you could really... I suppose there's some sort of detective story of what his world was like over the past decade, tracking down his significant other. But ultimately, I don't think that would be very productive, even if you could get any real information out of them.
Richie Unterberger (writer, author)
Weber pontificates
PSF: What do you think his contributions to the Rounders were?
RU: It's harder to separate Weber's contributions to the Holy Modal Rounders from the other main guy in the band, Peter Stampfel, than it is to, say, distinguish John Lennon's contributions from Paul McCartney's, or Stephen Stills's from Neil Young's. Both of them not only brought an irreverent wackiness to the folk revival (albeit the end of the folk revival), but also showed a willingness to move with the times and incorporate some rock and other influences that more traditional folk revivalists didn't.
But broadly and very relatively speaking, I think Stampfel was more grounded and organized than Weber. As Peter himself has recalled in interviews with me and others, Stampfel indulged in his share of weird behavior and excesses during the Rounders' early years. But Weber seemed kind of off the rails even compared to Stampfel.
What Weber specifically brought to the Rounders, I think, was a somewhat earthier counterpoint to Stampfel's somewhat more rural and countrified style. As a songwriter, judging from his sole but notorious contribution to the Fugs' first album, "Boobs a Lot," and the songs bearing his credit on their psychedelic The Moray Eels Eat the Holy Modal Rounders ("Half a Mind" and "One Will Do For Now"), he was yet more willing to go out on a limb into extreme subject matter. Or at least, extreme for the time, though Stampfel's writing was hardly conventional.
As soloists, both Stampfel and Weber might have been grating to take in large doses. As collaborators, they kind of sanded off each other's extremes through their harmonies and the ways they combined folk instruments. It seems to me Weber supplied more bluesy grit and Stampfel more country yowl, though Peter might disagree, as he often has a different take than listeners and critics do.
PSF: In terms of the 60's folk scene, where do you think the Rounders fit in?
RU: It's hard to say where the Holy Modal Rounders fit in the '60's folk scene. They knew traditional folk material really well, as heard on the two albums they recorded for Prestige, a label that often recorded folk revival acts, in 1963 and 1964. At the same time, from the get-go, they were determined not to simply re-create or pay homage to the folk repertoire. That's whether they were putting their kind of zany stamp on traditional material, or writing their own songs. Famously, the word "psychedelic" was inserted into their version of "Hesitation Blues," which could be the first use of the word in popular music. I've wondered whether Weber's "Mr. Spaceman" might have been an inspiration for the Byrds' psychedelic-bluegrass hybrid "Mr. Spaceman," though title aside they're entirely different songs.
Not having been there, I don't have first-hand knowledge of how they fit in the folk scene. But I'd guess they were considered too irreverent to get respect from folk purists, yet too trad-folk-inspired to get a lot of attention from the most adventurous folk fans, let alone rock fans. As Stampfel put it in an interview with me, "The purist attitude at the time was that this golden age was gone, and the right way to do it was to try to re-create it down to the pop and scratch on the old 78 RPM record. That's certainly a valid viewpoint, but it wasn't mine."
In some ways, what they were doing was more aligned with the sensibility of underground rock than folk, but a couple years before "underground rock" really started to become a term and sub-genre with the emergence of groups like the Mothers of Invention, Country Joe & the Fish, the Velvet Underground, and early Pink Floyd. Of course, they went more toward underground rock and farther away from folk as the '60's progressed, both in their time with the early Fugs and then their own records. It makes sense that later in the '60s, they were on ESP and Elektra, labels that had more early underground rock than almost any other companies in the US. By that time, I'd think they had more of an audience among underground rock fans than folkies, though their audience was never too big.
In my view, however, their artistic contribution to the '60's folk scene is more important than how they were perceived at the time and where they fit in. I think their chief contribution was in stretching the boundaries of traditional folk in quirkier and more experimental ways than almost any other group. Sometimes, the experiments were grating; sometimes they were inspiring, fun, and inventive. But they were certainly willing to try, even at the risk of sometimes sounding ridiculous.
PSF: Did you think the Bound to Lose film accurately represented Weber?
RU: I haven't met Weber or interviewed him, so I can't say with uncertainty whether Bound to Lose accurately represents him. His presence in the film, and how he's discussed in the film, certainly jibes with my impressions from reading about him and hearing others talk about him, particularly in my interviews with Stampfel. Peter's often noted how Weber was unreliable and often frustrating to deal with, going back to the '60's.
What perhaps doesn't come through as strongly in the film as it might is that Stampfel had some genuine affection and musical respect for Weber, even as it was sorely tested many times over the years. Here's how he remembered meeting Weber to me, for example: "I'd heard all these terrible things about him. He was this evil speed freak who wore nothing but black clothes that he got from garbage cans that were too small. I didn't realize he played funky blues guitar brilliantly. My first thought was, my God, it's my long-lost kid brother that I never even thought I had. The very first time we played together, it worked perfectly like we'd been doing it all our lives. There's this very strange way in which we fit together, which was a gift from fate."
Documentaries sometimes emphasize conflict and controversy, and downplay more supposedly mundane things like musical harmony, maybe in an attempt to create and heighten drama. The recent documentary David Crosby: Remember My Name might have done this. He comes off better in fellow Byrds Roger McGuinn and Chris Hillman's comments in the interviews in the DVD extras (as do McGuinn and Hillman), where Crosby's often praised (especially for his musical assets), than he does in the actual film. Maybe this is true to some degree of Weber in Bound to Lose, though I couldn't say for sure.
Also see Richie Unterberger's website
Pat Thomas (author (Listen Whitey), producer, Light in the Attic)
Probably 15 plus years ago, I was in contact with Stampfel and he presented me with this Holy Modal Rounders live 1971 broadcast [later released as Bird Song: Live 1971, 2004]. At that point, there were six members of the Rounders. And Stampfel being the good commie that he is.. and I mean that in the most affectionate way… he wanted all the members to be paid evenly. And I waited until the last minute to contact Weber and he felt that he and Stampfel should be paid more than the others.
So, we go back and forth on this, and this is the part that was comedic… The contract had already been signed by everybody (but him) but he insisted on getting it changed and by insisting that it got rewritten, he was ideally going to get more money (in his mind), but ironically enough, by changing the wording he was getting less money (he thought he was clever but obviously math wasn't a strong suit for him). I tried to convince him that he was only hurting himself. So what we did was that we wrote a contract that was just for him, just to his specifications, and he thought he was pulling a fast one, when in fact, he was quasi-fucking himself. I mean, everyone was getting pennies on the dollar anyway but it was just the absurdity of it. ‘Dude, you think you're so smart that you're an idiot.'
And then the other thing was, he wanted something for the back cover of the album, which was otherwise just a standard cover listing the song titles. He had been listening to Norman Greenbaum so he wanted some Greenbaum lyrics printed on 25 point type, which of course made no sense. So I squashed that.
And this was my first experience with Weber and this is when I started realizing how much bad blood was around. A year or two before that, there had been this Holy Modal Rounders reunion in Portland, Oregon. And he didn't show up because he decided at the last minute that it was ‘a bad career move.' And it was like, ‘you don't really have a career! If you do have a career, it's your Holy Modal Rounders fans!' (laughs)
So, it would be this thing where I could get a call from Stampfel and I would get a call from Weber and Stampfel was always the voice of reason.
And unfortunately, I'd get a little bit in the middle sometimes with this. There was this unreleased 1965 live tape that someone had sent out. And that came out [Live in 1965, ESP Disk, 2008] and that caused a big schism. My memory is that Weber sold that to Bernald Stollman, who didn't tell Stampfel.
And then the other thing was, with Weber, you also had to deal with his significant other. But she was definitely pulling the strings and creating more havoc. Like, for example, the front cover of the album [Bird Song] is a woman holding a piece of glass, like a mirror, and she doesn't really have a head. So the girlfriend decided that this was sexist. But it wasn't like we purposely cut off her head. I don't even remember where that image came from. So Weber made our lives semi-miserable for a couple months.
Dr. Roger Straus (lifelong Rounders fan, sociologist of Old Weird Americana)
Weber on exhibit, August 2005
courtesy of Dr. Roger Straus
While I was a fan since I got turned on to the Fugs in college back in 1965, I had limited personal experience with Weber, but a few references might be of interest:
1. I first met him in '67 or '68 when Ed Sanders put up mimeo flyers all over the Lower East Side announcing "Tamed Methedrine Monster/First Time Ever Art Show" at his Peace Eye Book Store. I just remember a few pieces -- a radio that played all stations at once, a large lucite (or at least clear, polished plastic) brick with a kilo-sized brick of junk Weber had scraped from the sidewalks in front of his apartment in the middle, and a photo of an Elephant's rear at the Bronx Zoo just as shit was falling out of its arse. Weber was there, still looking like Little Abner (as in the first 2 album covers), drinking a bottle of berry-flavored Yoohoo.
2. Saw him playing with Stampfel several times around 2000. He talked me into getting him a drink at one gig, only to learn that everyone in the know was instructed not to do so... I think that was a Philly show where he fell off the stage. They also played the legendary Tin Angel once, which was a really good show.
(That was the first time I met Yvette O'Tannenbaum, reputedly the nspiration for "Boobs a Lot" many years early - she's since become a friend and came up with the idea for of the Celebration of Weber's Life tribute videos)
Mostly saw him in New Jersey shows around then. Once he told me he was (wink wink) growing opium poppies at his place, and turned down my proffered joint. When he and Peter were in sync, the music was truly great. His guitar work was always masterful. But there was a lot of arguing between them, and Weber refusing to play songs he didn't know or just didn't want to do.
3. In 2005, Kathryn and I visited him and his significant other, Judith, in Brooklyn. They were living in a super-orthodox, Satmar neighborhood. We were asked to hold off coming by for a couple hours so they could neaten up, but we never got to see their apartment, they met us outside. We all went to the Brooklyn Botanical Garden, had lunch and talked. I had some pretty good quality photos that are probably the latest available photos of Weber (see the top and bottom of this article). He and I had a great chat about William S. Burroughs' fold-in and paste-up literary technique.
4. For some time after this, Judith considered Kathryn her BFF, but then they moved to West Virginia. Kathryn can tell you about how Judith decided she'd betrayed Weber by giving out his phone number during a Vermont CD release tour for Gary Sisco, when Dave Reisch, Sisco and Hurley called Weber up to say hello (apparently, some guy Sisco met had actually given him Weber's number - Kathryn did not).
From that point, the phone calls dried up. After the movie Bound to Lose was released and neither Kathryn nor I denounced it, we were literally unfriended by Judith and Weber, kicked out of their Facebook Group, etc. Prior to that, there were many Facebook posts supposedly by Weber but without the usual creative spellings and punctuation, so everyone thought that was Judith posting under his name.
Annie Wilkinson (writer/editor, The New York Times, Los Angeles Times)
Annie guitar age 21
When I was in my early 20s, around 1966, I was a young hippie and wannabe folksinger working in New York City at Britain Leather on Sullivan Street in the Village. My job there was to stain pieces that would later be assembled as women's purses; nobody thought about bad chemicals then, so I didn't wear gloves, instead preferring to stain each piece with bare fingers. As a result, my hands were perpetually stained in shades of coffee, burgundy, and the like from the aniline dyes. (See the attached photo taken around that time.) I worked from 1 to 9 p.m., when I would lock up and walk north to my fourth-floor walkup apartment on West 8th Street near 5th Avenue.
I can't remember how it started or where we met, but somehow most nights after I got home, Steve Weber would stop by. All long, gangly legs in sagging jeans, this skinny guy would sit himself down on my couch and pick on his guitar. I would fix my dinner - usually cheap spaghetti with canned tomato sauce - and he always wanted some and ate hungrily.
We'd talk - he talked a lot - and he would play some of the Holy Modal Rounders' "hits" while I fixed dinner and washed the dishes. I liked bluegrass and blues, so I loved the Rounders' twangy, tight nasal sound with the Appalachian backwoods banjo. I'd often ask him to play "Bound to Lose" and he always obliged.
Sometimes I'd quietly sing harmony, too self-conscious to reveal that more than anything I wanted to be recognized for my musical talent as a guitarist and singer-songwriter. That would have to wait for its time in the future. So I'd mostly just listen.
He was fascinated with Nancy Sinatra's "These Boots Are Made For Walkin'" and would talk and talk about how great one lick sounded, and he'd tune down a string and slowly plunk on it to imitate the sound.
What impressed me about him was that he never came on to me, like most guys did at a time when no one called those moves "unwelcome advances." He was content simply with my company and the spaghetti. But at the same time, I sensed that his mind wasn't all there. People that knew him then would refer to him as an "A-head," meaning speed freak.
I don't recall exactly when the visits stopped - perhaps when I got involved in a long-term relationship with a guy - but I always enjoyed it when he'd come over. It was simple, easy, just two young adults sharing the evenings.
Also see our interview with Stampfel
Stampfel's article on Freak Folk origins
Stampfel's tribute to Sam Shepard
Stampfel's article on 'go' songs