THE PRESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Little Blue Dune Buggy, in the Sand
An Interview with Chris Ballew
by Peter Crigler, Part 2
(February/March 2020)
PSF: So what actually ended up causing the band to break up the first time?
CB: Just me, just that conflict between the red flag going up inside me and then the outward activity of just going ahead and going on tour, and you know, doing the rigmarole of being in a band on a major label. After a while, the friction between my real desire and my activities got too much. Plus, I had this voice in the back of my head that said, "Okay, congratulations on The Presidents. You did a great job. You're successful in the traditional way, but this is not your final destination. You have to keep digging. There's some other voice, some other songs, some other point of view that you haven't found yet that's really gonna ..." It was like a gut feeling.
So eventually, that gut feeling got really loud. And I realized, it's like, you can't find the job you want while you have the job you don't like. Or you can't find the girl of your dreams while you're dating the one that's just okay. So I was like, "I gotta quit the band, and zero out, and figure out what this other thing is."
PSF: So how did everybody come back together a year and a half later and record Freaked Out and Small?
CB: That was a company called Music Blitz, and they were doing this thing where they were paying bands to record one song that was available nowhere else. And they were gonna make compilation records of these unique songs by known artists. And they were paying good licensing fees for this, and paying for studio time.
So we're like, "Yeah. We're broken up, but we'll do it. We'll do one." And we did one, and it was a lot of fun. And at the same time, we did one with ... We had a band with Sir Mix-a-Lot, called SUbSET.
PSF: Yeah, that was my next question.
CB: We went in the studio and recorded a SUbSET song and a Presidents song for this Music Blitz company, and then the Presidents song they liked so much, they're like, "Well, would you guys do a whole album?" And we're like, "Well, we're kind of broken up, but sure." Because I had all these songs that couldn't be played on two and three-string guitars. They needed six-string and four-string, traditional. So we're like, "Hey, let's do a traditional record where we play regular instruments."
So we did that, and that was really fun, really fast, no pressure, 10 days, in and out, totally ... 10 days where we had no songs, and then we just did. Like, I'd show up and play an old demo of a song and be like, "Okay, let's do that." And we'd spend the day tracking, finish it. So we did it really fast, and Martin Feveyear, our live sound guy, recorded it for us. And that's when we started working with him. And we worked with him all the way to the second breakup. So yeah, that album was just a one-off thing. And then we did one show at his studio that we somehow recorded or broadcast live on the internet or something. It was our world tour. We're like, "Well, we're not gonna tour. We're not gonna play shows. But we'll just do this one performance. And then we'll ... you know call it quits."
And Duff McKagan from Guns N' Roses was our bass player for that, because Dave and I both were playing six-string guitars. And we're like, "Oh, shoot. We don't have a bass player." So we recruited Duff to play bass. And he did an amazing job.
I like that record. It's explosive. I mean, it's really not really what the Presidents sound like. But it's another dimension. It's what we sound like when we're broken up, I guess. That company's gone. So good luck finding that.
PSF: So tell me about SUbSET. I'd heard about it, but nothing ever came out.
CB: Nothing ever came out. Sir Mix-a-Lot was approached by somebody who was making a record where they wanted people in Seattle to collaborate to cover Jimi Hendrix songs. So he's like, "Oh, I want to call The Presidents."
So Mix called me up and was like, "Let's have dinner. And let's talk about something." And he was very cryptic and mysterious. I was like, "Well, okay." You get a cryptic phone call from Sir Mix-a-Lot, you probably better follow that trail of bread crumbs and see where it goes.
So we had dinner, and immediately we kind of hit it off. It was me and the ... you know, Dave and Jason, and Mix and his manager Ricardo. And we really just got along great right from the get-go, and we're like, "Well, forget the Hendrix song. Let's make up some new songs."
So we went in and did two or three new songs, and it was super fun, and effortless, and easy, and great. And then we're like, "Okay. Let's make this into a band. Let's make a record." And as we worked harder and harder, the common ground creatively between all of us got smaller and smaller somehow. Mix wanted to kind of start pushing the music into not just guitar-based drums, but other stuff. And I was interested in that too, but Dave and Jason were not as interested in that stuff.
So I called the band SUbSET because it's like, you know, we have these four personalities that are pretty different, finding the SUbSET of common ground where we all said, "Yeah, that sounds great," was what the band was about, kinda.
PSF: Are there any demos or anything that's floating around that anybody could hear?
CB: Oh, yeah. They're out there. I mean, I've got a whole album in my iTunes just unfinished with a few songs we never tracked in a studio, but they're live versions. You know, the expectations inside the band and outside the band got really kind of out of control, and I think that project got kind of crushed by its own expectations. And we did a West Coast tour, and it was pretty fun, but it was not profitable.
Yeah. It just sort of crumbled. And the music is there, but ... And Mix, every once in a while, I'd see him, and he's like, "We gotta release that SUbSET thing. Just get it out there." And I'm like, "Yep. Sure. Go ahead. I don't want anything to do with it because I'm busy with other stuff. But you have my blessing to finish it." And then nothing happened, so. But it was on Napster when Napster was a thing, so it's out there.
PSF: How did you guys come back together and record the Love Everybody record? And what was the reaction when that came out?
CB: Well, that's Krist Novoselic’s fault, basically. For a few years there, 2000, 2001, 2002, we'd get phone calls like, "Hey, you guys. Will you reunite and play this show or that show?" And we're always like, "Nah. We're good."
But then Krist Novoselic was gonna get an award for ... not really a Lifetime Achievement award, but some kind of award for his ... you know, philanthropic efforts or political action efforts through the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, or NARAS. They had a big dinner kind of thing, and he was gonna get an award, and they wanted him to play some songs. And he's like, "I don't know how I'm gonna play songs." So he called us up and was like, "Hey, will you guys be my backup band? And when you do it, will you do a Presidents song and be The Presidents of the United States of America, not just my three friends?" And we're like, "Yeah. We'll do that."
And all of a sudden, we looked at each other kind of, we're like, "Yeah. We could be The Presidents of the United States of America again. Yeah." So that was gonna be in April of 2003. And we got so excited, we got a rehearsal space and went in, and started remembering our songs, and did a New Year's Eve show at the end of 2002 as a reunion show.
And it was unbelievably fun. I mean, it was like we were the best Presidents cover band ever. You know? It had been five years, forgot where to put our fingers, forgot everything, forgot the words, had to re-learn everything, and it was definitely like learning someone else's songs. You know, the songs had a history, and they had sort of ... been around, but it was cool. It was not like we made them up.
So it was like we got to experience and enjoy the fruits of our labor without feeling all wrapped up in the ... you know, I don't know, the other part, the business part, you know? And then slowly, but surely, that kind of turned into an out of town gig here, and an out of town gig there, and slowly, tenderly, gingerly, we put our toes in the water. And we're like, "Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Here we go. Let's get a manager and start booking shows, get a booking agent." And then new songs started to pop up, you know.
And we're like, "Hey, let's make a record." So we did, and all of a sudden, we're like, "Hey, we're back. Woo hoo." And it was really nice, because we got to just enjoy it, and not feel any sort of pressure to prove anything. It was a real treat, and we really got to respect our achievements without feeling sad.
PSF: What caused Dave to leave the band and Andrew to come in?
CB: Well, at some point during that Love Everybody, post making the record and touring on it, Dave I think had a similar ... you know, back when I first broke up the band in '98, I went to a band meeting and just said, "Okay, first action item, I quit." And I think Dave felt relief at that point. We had just come back from Australia and things were out of control, like a girl got hurt at one of our shows and had an asthma attack or something and ... I don't know, we started feeling like, a little unsafe.
I mean, nowhere near of course, you know, I don't know if you've seen that Eight Days A Week, Ron Howard produced movie about the Beatles' early touring years. They were in mortal danger all the time. But we felt a little bit of that in Australia, and things were just a little out of control. So I think Dave was relieved when I broke up the band the first time, in some ways.
So I think his threshold for that kind of rigmarole, getting on planes and traveling around and being away from his family and his little kids, his threshold was way lower than mine and way lower than Jason's. Jason's just, "get me to an airport and show me some drums and I'm happy."
So Dave bowed out because I think he was just like, you know, he saw the future and he was just like, "Nah, I'm not interested," and now, "I'm not interested again." But Jason and I, we loved the record and we were having fun and really sort of enjoying what was happening. So yeah, we cast about for another guitar player. The big litmus test for the guitar player was, "will they be okay playing "Dune Buggy"?" 'Cause "Dune Buggy" was the most kind of dorky, silly song.
We thought of people who had kind of a rock pedigree and we're like, "Nah, they wouldn't play "Dune Buggy."" So anyway, Andrew (McKeag) was a friend of ours. You know, I shared a practice space with Andrew and shared band members. At one point, I had a side project when the Presidents were broken up, and it was the rest of Andrew's band, basically, that I was using. So I knew him.
Andrew was like, "Yeah, I'll do it. I'll try it," and it clicked. So, he kinda saved the band and we were with Andrew for another 13 years.
PSF: Okay, so how did you start doing Caspar Babypants, and where did the name come from?
CB: Well, Caspar Babypants was my stage name when I was with Mark Sandman in the improvisational band called Supergroup, and yeah, I wore a pair of actual baby's pants on my head. You can find pictures on the ol' internet machine of that.
So I was Caspar Babypants in that band, and then I forgot about that and then you know, as I'm paying attention to the little voice in my head that's saying, "Keep looking for your next thing," I get deeper and deeper in that, and the music I was making got simpler and simpler and more acoustic and more innocent and more, you know, like folksy. I was like, "Well, what is this?"
Then I met my second wife, Kate, and her artwork really spoke to me. I was like, "I wanna make music that comes from that planet, the planet that her artwork comes from." It's really innocent and simple and well made and folksy and animals and brights and colors.
So I made a couple songs that were directly inspired by her artwork, and a giant cartoon light bulb went off over my head. It's like, "Oh my god this entire time I was supposed to be making music for little babies. 'Cause they are the ultimate, you know, enlightened, happy little people. That's the energy I wanna be around, you know? I'm not cynical. I wanna be like a kid."
So yeah, started doing it and it clicked, and whereas before with the Presidents, I would struggle to come up with songs, I'm sitting on a creative volcano with Caspar Babypants. It's like eight years later, and I've got my 13th record coming out and no end in sight. So I found the voice that my inner voice told me to look for, so that's awesome. I'm super happy.
PSF: So how did it feel crowdfunding the last Presidents record (Kudos to You!, 2014)?
CB: I was a little mixed on the crowdfunding thing. Jason was really into it. Jason and this guy Jay Coil that we hired to help us with that project. I kinda went along, I was like, "Yeah, I'll give it a try," and I understood the logic like, you know, people wanna get a thrill out of feeling they're a part of something. I get a little funny asking for money to make a record. Like, I don't know. In this day and age, you can buy a laptop and a couple mics and you should be able to get something down, you know. If you can't, then you know, maybe ... I don't know, I don't wanna get into it. Maybe it's... a sensitive area.
Feels a little funny, like people are like, "I need $50,000 to make my record," No, you don't. I've made 13 records on like, three grand worth of gear. You know?
PSF: What caused the final breakup of the band? And is this the definitive break up?
CB: Yeah, it was different. It was really me. It's me again doing it. I mean, we used to say that we broke up for the same reason Soundgarden did the first time they broke up, that Chris quit.
If your Chris quits, that's it, you know? So the second time ... the first time was very passionate and angry. Like I went into the band meeting and I was like, "First order of business, I quit!" You know, just like vomited my dissatisfaction all over the room.
Second time, very different. Dispassionate, measured, educated. I found my voice; I had been doing Caspar and the Presidents for many years. I was like, "Okay, something's gotta give," and much the same way like when I got divorced from my first wife, it was ... we worked through all of our issues and we got to a point where it was just like turning off a light switch and there was no hot blooded emotions. That has enabled she and I to remain really close and be great, effective parents for our kids and all this stuff.
So I got the band in the same spot. I got it to the spot where it was like, "Look, this is really not the same as the first time," and I did a ton of work on myself and I figured out this essential thing about myself which is that I'm a fixer. I tried to fix my mom's sadness by playing music. I tried to fix the world by singing happy songs. But ... those are positive things, but the negative part about being a fixer is you can't say no.
Four years earlier before I broke up the band, I sat Jason and Andrew down and kinda said like, "Look, I'm really done. Every time I get on a plane from here on out, it's for you guys. Just know that "the clock's ticking." So I let four years go by and we made another record.
And so I thought, you know, that's a good buffer zone for them to get their stuff together and be ready. Then I finally just said, you know, "Okay, I'm ready to move on." It was really easy.
So, and it feels really appropriate and really good and my plate is beyond full with creativity and business, running a label and all that with Caspar Babypants and I feel like I've found my purpose.
PSF: Do you feel like the band will come back together for the 40th anniversary of grunge?
CB: You know what, all I've learned is never say never. That is all I learned. You never know. Highly unlikely though, because ... I don't know. I just can't ... part of it is too, like, you know, you can only sing those songs so many times. I mean, songs really live because they're of a time, you know? Like they're alive because they are you at that moment and they're like a sonic footprint of you.
If you keep singing them, if you keep singing ones you made up in your 20’s when you're in your 50’s, it doesn't fit. It's like, "this suit is small and scratchy and I don't wanna wear it anymore. But I love it, I love it, I'm gonna hang it in the closet with care. But I can't put it on." I think it's inappropriate to keep doing the same thing for your whole life. I mean, Caspar's gonna end sometime too, probably, and then who knows what's next.
PSF: What are Jason and Dave up to now? I'm assuming that everybody's still family.
CB: Yeah, yeah. It's funny, now we're kind of back to the original threesome because we have a never-ending business to run, basically of managing income from the first record, which is the one that makes all the money. So me and Jason now have business meetings a few times a year. We go out for drinks and food and it's like the band is back together in its original form except we don't play any music, we just talk about how money moves around.
Yeah, and Andrew's moved to San Diego, so you know, he's physically not even in Seattle anymore.
PSF: But Dave's happier now?
CB: Dave works at Amazon in the music department. Andrew is doing a bunch of different odd music related stuff. He tour manages a Jimi Hendrix hot shot guitar review type show that the Hendrix organization puts on every year. So he's real tight with the Hendrix family and that scene, and gets his ya-yas out on the road by tour managing and traveling and being on tour buses and stuff that he loves.
PSF: Does Jason still play shows with Love Battery from time to time?
CB: No, he doesn't. He doesn't play, in fact, last time I saw him he said he hasn't played drums in like, two years and he doesn't miss it. I think he kind of maybe came around a little bit to my thinking. Like, all right, you know, one of the things I said to Jason and Andrew when I finally broke up the band was like, "Guys, we won. We can stop." Just like ... I don't know if you noticed that we have won the game. So the game's over.
I feel like from his Instagram (and I don't talk to him that much) but he looks like he's living large and just having a great time just enjoying life.
PSF: What do you hope the Presidents’ legacy will be?
CB: I hope people will hear it and think like, "Well, if they can do it, I can do it."
I want it to feel like punk rock in that sense where you know, if these three dorks can pull it off then I can pull it off. You know who said that actually on the radio one time, believe it or not, is Andrew WK, remember that guy? Yeah, he was like, somebody asked like, "How did you find the inspiration to do this?" And he's like, "I listened to the Presidents of the United States of America and I thought, if they can do it, I can do it."
Yeah, the legacy I would like would be the open-door policy of give it a shot and see what happens.